We are a web shop currently standardized on Dreamweaver MX 2004 and ASP 3.0.

Currently, our graphics folks create each web site in Dreamweaver and put placeholders in for dynamic stuff. Then our programmers manually (using notepad) insert ASP (VBScript). This is usually a problem when the design changes and the graphics people have to work their magic (and mess up the ASP code in the process).

We want to convert our ASP projects to ASP.net to take advantage of code behind, form validation and lots of other stuff. It is my understanding that we will need Visual Studio.NET to accomplish this.

However, giving up Dreamweaver is just not an option. We use its site-building features, templates, stylesheets, etc. to create extremely flexible HTML that our end-users can even maintain themselves. So I need to be able to let my graphic folks continue to use Dreamweaver to build the visual portions of our web sites and let our programmers use Visual Studio.net to take care of dynamic page elements, database access, etc.

In a perfect world these two groups could use their chosen tools and pass the projects back and forth between the tools but I'm not sure how to accomplish this.

Is anyone doing this or do you know how we can integrate these two tools for a complete solution? Many thanks in advance.

Very interesting topic. We have also the same problem that our design people are using Dreamweaver and we are hand-coding most time ASP.NET or ASP Classic 3.0 into Dreamweaver.

Last year we have developed sites in Visual Studio .NET and are facing the same problem. Therefore I hope that Dreamweaver will have better ASP.NET functionality so we can use Dreamweaver with our whole team of graphic designers and developers.

We have also tested with Microsoft Visual Web Developer but this does not the code-behind functionality.

<hr><b>DMXZone support manager</b><br><a href="www.kousman.nl">Kousman web resellers</a>

Are there key features/items missing from DMX2004's ASP.NET support? I ask a few repy questions, to poke the topic higher I hope...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>We want to convert our ASP projects to ASP.net to take advantage of code behind, form validation and lots of other stuff. It is my understanding that we will need Visual Studio.NET to accomplish this.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
No, you can even use Notepad, and definitely Dreamweaver MX2004. If you are familar with XML or even regular HTML, then that is what .NET code essentially is.

<b>Is there an issue with staying within a visual enviroment (VS.net/DW)?</b> Have your VS.net developers actually taken a look at the power of DW, or they stuck in VS land? Macromedia offers some cool videos to show overviews. In my experiece, in CF or ASP or JAVA or .NET houses (I've working in them all), everyone who <i>doesn't</i> use DW <u>think</u> it re-writes code on you. Well, it doesn't and hasn't for over 5 years, fyi.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>However, giving up Dreamweaver is just not an option. We use its site-building features, templates, stylesheets, etc. to create extremely flexible HTML that our end-users can even maintain themselves. So I need to be able to let my graphic folks continue to use Dreamweaver to build the visual portions of our web sites and let our programmers use Visual Studio.net to take care of dynamic page elements, database access, etc.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Are you depending on too much (X)HTML, meaning are you using more CSS for layout? If so, there shouldn't be as huge of a problem integrating code into the static pages developed. Are you using a CSV? Are your web-designers totally non-coders? CSS & JS (JavaScript) & (X)HTML is still considered code even if it is done visually.

<b>Where is your team/project running into walls?</b> Breakdown talks between developers & designers? Code gets mangled when a designer does tweaks to a page with development code all in it? (that's a dragging without asking issue there I'd think!) Again, I ask, where is your tream/projects breaking down?


<i>Comment: By the way, I love Notepad, for changing one character or so, but anyone who still develops in Notepad - ouch, this isn't caveman era... sorry, had to vent on that. There are soooo many (free & commercial) visual aids/tools for any (coding) language on the planet.</i>

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Chris Charlton <i>- DMXzone Manager</i>
<font size=1>[ Studio MX/MX2004 | PHP/ASP | SQL | XHTML/CSS | XML | Actionscript | Web Accessibility | MX Extensibility ]</font id=size1>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Are there key features/items missing from DMX2004's ASP.NET support?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>It is my understanding that there are TONS of features present in VisualStudio.NET that are missing in Dreamweaver MX 2004! For example, code behind, which is a feature for maintaining separation of HTML and ASP.net code. This can be handled automatuically for you with VS.NET but as far as I know is non-existent in Dreamweaver. (And yes, I know you can code the code pages in Notepad but the whole point of my post is how do we use Dreamweaver and VS.NET rather than more primitive tools.)

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>No, you can even use Notepad, and definitely Dreamweaver MX2004. If you are familar with XML or even regular HTML, then that is what .NET code essentially is.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>What? You're saying that .NET code is XML or regular HTML? .NET code is C# or VB.NET (and some HTML perhaps) that executes on the web server before the page is sent to the user's browser. The ASP.NET server essentially executes your .NET code and then translates that to pure HTML before sending it.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Is there an issue with staying within a visual enviroment (VS.net/DW)? Have your VS.net developers actually taken a look at the power of DW, or they stuck in VS land? Macromedia offers some cool videos to show overviews. In my experiece, in CF or ASP or JAVA or .NET houses (I've working in them all), everyone who <i>doesn't</i> use DW <u>think</u> it re-writes code on you. Well, it doesn't and hasn't for over 5 years, fyi.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>We know DW doesn't re-write code. However, I have heard that VS.NET does (sometimes) and that it also can mangle DW's template comments thus rendering them useless on the return-trip from VS.NET to DW.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Are you depending on too much (X)HTML, meaning are you using more CSS for layout? If so, there shouldn't be as huge of a problem integrating code into the static pages developed. Are you using a CSV? Are your web-designers totally non-coders? CSS & JS (JavaScript) & (X)HTML is still considered code even if it is done visually.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>For sake of this discussion let's assume I want my coders and my designers to be separate with little or no knowledge of the other's skills!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Where is your team/project running into walls? Breakdown talks between developers & designers? Code gets mangled when a designer does tweaks to a page with development code all in it? (that's a dragging without asking issue there I'd think!) Again, I ask, where is your tream/projects breaking down?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>Somewhat like you describe. It is very cumbersome the way we work currently. Once the designer is finished with a site, the coders take over and integrate the dynamic stuff. Then, when the site needs to change the designer cannot always implement their changes without screwing up the embedded code. Or, the style of coding may have completely hidden from view (in DW) some section of the page because of a conditional statement.


Basically, I need to come up with a standard practice for our studio where the designers use Dreamweaver MX 2004 and the coders use Visual Studio.NET. Below are the key features I need,

- web site will always be created in Dreamweaver
- all design will be template controlled
- all formatting will be done using CSS
- when a page is created, placeholder(s) will be inserted for the dynamic content
- coders will be able to open the project in Visual Studio.NET
- they will be able to add their dynamic content by using built-in VS.NET components like Datagrid, etc.
- when inserting a component like Datagrid, coders will be able to apply the CSS styles to the component so it will blend well with the site
- when the design changes, designers will be able to open the site in DW again and make their design changes without involving the coders
- when the code changes, the coders will be able to open the site in VS.NET again and make their code changes without involving the designers
- back and forth, happily, forever (ideally with no need for Notepad or other manual adjustments)


Then, to add a bit of complexitiy to the mix, many of the sites we design need to be self-maintained by the client using Macromedia's Contribute. So, the clients would not be able to edit the ASP.net code but they would be able to edit the static portions using COntribute. And this would not negatively impact the designers and the coders on my team!

Edited by - TrustyClown on 10 Apr 2005 02:22:16

<i>Tall order.</i> Especially since I am unfamilar of VS.net .

I see your point on the workflow handling, er, juggling I should say. <img src=../images/dmxzone/forum/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

<b>Have you developed a CMS system before?</b> If so, only for larger sites? Contribute is $99-a-seat, and charging your clients at least that much to add a Web-based Rich-Text Editor and some minor body-content administration of templated areas? [DMXzone R&D dept. has an "Online Contribute" (supposedly) coming sometime in the next year or so.]

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Chris Charlton <i>- DMXzone Manager</i>
<font size=1>[ Studio MX/MX2004 | PHP/ASP | SQL | XHTML/CSS | XML | Actionscript | Web Accessibility | MX Extensibility ]</font id=size1>