I'm wondering which is better and why. Can someone convince me? I notice alot of info on PHP showing up, but honestly I have little exposure to the product. Thanks

Michael Rudge

well, PHPs reigning argument, is that it's free... you can set up a webserver running apache, and a mysql server for free. While the evil M$ empire will have you pay for a licence on a winServer and SQL Server.

That being said the free factor will do you little good if you have to pay for a webhost (they will charge about the same price as an ASP host as far as I know).

ASP can have the argument that you can use COM Objects in asp to improve performance. plus the advent of asp.net is an even great improvement in performance and scalability.

Keep in mind, I am primarily an asp dev, so thats why this might have an M$ slant. But I have been learning PHP, CF, and soon JSP to broaden my horizons. there is a good use for each language in different situations.

It's really up to your circumstance, my job has M$ servers, so I use asp. But if I were ever to start up my own business, the need to keep costs low would probably send me the PHP way.

my $0.02

Joel Martinez [ ]
----------
E-Commerce Concepts with Ultradev...pre-order yours at
www.basic-ultradev.com/ecomm_concepts/

Thanks joel, I'm interested in whether there is a power difference and I guess not. It is true what you say about free, it is free but there are alternative costs of operation. For a small business that is non-technical the open source will save initial cash but require nore skilled support. Is that a fair assumption?

Michael Rudge

I think that's a good assumption... M$ most certainly wins in the support arena. There are countless resources for helping with M$ products out there, while PHP resources can be cryptic at times.

but again, I think you should go with the plan that fits your situation.

Joel Martinez [ ]
----------
E-Commerce Concepts with Ultradev...pre-order yours at
www.basic-ultradev.com/ecomm_concepts/

psssst!...
(!--looking over shoulder --)
...pardon me,
i really don't have a one-way-or-the-other sort of opinion on asp vs. php just yet since i am (really) new to php. however, at my "day job" i deal with M$ support services on a <u>constant basis</u> and i think that this conversation places too much emphasis on the support that M$ delivers.
there was a time when i would have agreed with you. as recently as two years ago i believe their support would have kept me in asp. however, current trends (as observed from an insider point-of-view) give me the personal opinion that the honeymoon is over.
since my excursions (incursions?) with open-source or 3rd-party alternatives began, i have learned an incredible amount from online forums (just like this one!) and feel that the "information highway" has more to offer than i can ever digest. i dont seem to be having an issue tracking down php resources (although i do seem to be having trouble remembering what day of the week it is...)

There are no "webmasters"...only "webstudents". Now, snatch the floppy from my hand, grasshopper.

well, that just goes to show you that you can always find what you are looking for...

I never have a problem tracking down help for an asp problem... while PHP resources escape me (other than the PHP talkzone and php.net).

I know how it feels to be on the inside of a company support team, I used to do phone support for Gateway computers... and while I was working there, I thought gateway was the worst company out there. It was only after I left that I realized that they are no different (better or worst) than the other oem's. So I know how easy it is to become biased against the company you support.

Theres a great article over at www.angrycoder.com right now that deals with what happens during the decision making process on a project... good reading that site.

Joel Martinez [ ]
----------
E-Commerce Concepts with Ultradev...pre-order yours at
www.basic-ultradev.com/ecomm_concepts/

www.angrycoder.com/article.aspx?cid=1&y=2001&m=12&d=11

to be exact

Joel Martinez [ ]
----------
E-Commerce Concepts with Ultradev...pre-order yours at
www.basic-ultradev.com/ecomm_concepts/

heh. the angry coder. i think im a fan... <img src=../images/dmxzone/forum/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

viva la sumpthun.

There are no "webmasters"...only "webstudents". Now, snatch the floppy from my hand, grasshopper.

Guys, thanks a ton. I posted another question about security that you may offer some good advice. I just created a site with ASP, SQL Server 2000 and IIS 5.0 and got blasted by an associate for lack of security. I don't know suat about php, but I know a little C++, Java and OOP in general so maybe I should test some php, but the thought of redoing 25000 lines of code makes me ill. I wish this asshole would have raised his concerns during the design phase...
thanks<img src=../images/dmxzone/forum/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Michael Rudge

This is always a very intersting argument/discussion/heated debate, and indeed Joel raises some valid (and some not so valid) points about PHP in general. However, the best advice has already been given in that you should choose the system that best suits your purpose and budget.

Now, that is done, I just want to respond to some of the issues raised:-

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
ASP can have the argument that you can use COM Objects in asp to improve performance. plus the advent of asp.net is an even great improvement in performance and scalability.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

It should be noted that PHP has full support for COM components if PHP is installed on a Windows server (ie: IIS), so if you have commercial COM components, or specific functionality that you require via COM this too can be achieved. Granted, that COM is under-used in PHP, as for the most part the functionality that COM components give you 99% of the time already exists within PHP as a native function, or can easily be added by installing any of the optional PHP components.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
There are countless resources for helping with M$ products out there, while PHP resources can be cryptic at times.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

This is really an unfair comment, as ASP resources can often be equally cryptic. It all depends on which angle you are approaching this from. I am primarily a PHP developer and I got this way thanks to the support and patience of the PHP community, and the multitude of free resources that are available. On the flip-side, when I started out trying to learn ASP I found that there were very few resources for a newbie ASP developer (though granted that has changed now). However, it cannot be denied that the learning curve of ASP is far steeper than that of PHP.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I know how it feels to be on the inside of a company support team, I used to do phone support for Gateway computers... and while I was working there, I thought gateway was the worst company out there. It was only after I left that I realized that they are no different (better or worst) than the other oem's. So I know how easy it is to become biased against the company you support.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I completely agree with you there Joel. I used to be a Team Leader for Software and Hardware support at Time Computers, and would summarise my experience there in much the same way you just did.

One thing that PHP really has over ASP (other than the cost) is the learning curve, as I mentioned earlier. One of the reasons I love the language so much is that I don't have to switch my brain into different modes too much (which can sometimes hurt). PHP has similar syntax (and even similar commands!) to JavaScript, as it is a C influenced language.

Anyway, just my 2cents. But one thing you can be sure of, whether you opt for ASP or PHP Michael, is that at UDZone there will be somebody to help you out should you need it.

All the best

Tim Green

Extension & PHP TalkZone Manager
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For me its more off a philosophical choice. Is ASP or PHP or whatever better. Sometimes it will and sometimes it won’t. It all the same and they all keep getting better.

But the real question is, what do you want to support. It even comes to the point of in what sort off world do you want to live in. Support M$ and your choice is not that off a community that is in the hart free. (With free I don’t say GRATIS). The M$ choice is also killing creativity off the individual…
If you choose for PhP witch is an open source project, then your choice is for a society that is in its hart free and so not controlled by the big bugs and what ever control mechanisms otherwise would lay in the future.

The choice is also, are you going to make Bill Gates or any big CEO even more rich or are you supporting people who help you in a fair why like the people here ad the forums. Those with there project and yes can make money off them but not billions and billions.

Think about it: Your choice off software is a choice for tomorrow’s society I can only hope that open source and can be the standard off that society. Just like free press has to be a standerd for a democracies, elections for or country etc… In that way programming project should be build on the open source idea.

(note: I don’t have anything against making good deal off money. As long as it doesn’t kill any body else there creativity, freedom etc… )

Onno Timmerman licentiaat(Master degree) Philosophy
I wrote my thesis about this subject.